Polymer cases give us some advantages. I drug out a PTR-91 and an FN FAL with the ammo. The prices are close, but what are the differences? \"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. Either one is all right in most ARs. Wolf Performance Ammunition continues to bring top quality ammo and firearms products to the American consumer today in a variety of different product lines. Today on March 25th, 2014 I set out to test some PCP polymer cased ammo in some commonly available military rifles. Steel casings are one of the most misunderstood cartridge components out there. I emailed them and they assured me they will continue to offer both: DKG Trading, who owns the Bear lines, also offer their rust resistant Silver Bear (zinc coating) and Golden Bear (brass coating). Poly means polymer, as in polymer coated rather than the lacquer that they had previously used. Lodging the casing and causing a failure to extract. There are "acrylic lacquers" which are polymer. Thinking of going to Brown or Silver Bear b/c it's supposedly loaded hotter and is … MFAK : Modern Fighting Automatic Kalashnikov, Selain Harga Jasa Anti Rayap, Pertimbangkan Hal Ini, Corn, beans, spent brass, an empty page and a deadline (c) 2008 to 2012. It also resists corrosion more than the other types of steel cased ammo. It still smells funny, but the polymer coated rounds don't seem to gum up like the lacquer coated ones could. The "laquer" coating is the best, followed by the polymer and metal coatings. Lately since we are in the middle of a hot and steamy summer in a lot of the country, I've been seeing a lot of posts about polymer ammo getting surface rust. ETA: Happened to me with an AR, can't remember the maker. My gun buddies who have stacked, and who've shot, thousands and thousands of lacquer coated rounds in .223 and 7.62x39, have never experienced a single instance of gumming or melting. He recommends a very good cleaning after using cheap ammo. Quick view Choose Options. On the flip-side, anybody have a gummed up chamber cause stuck cases or other malfs from lacquer? Now hit that empty brass with a butane or propane torch. The problem primarily seems to be using Wolf manufactured 5.56mm cartridges in AR series rifles. this fouling heats the polymer or laquer and leaves deposits in the chamber. Aug 10, 2009 424 18 Angleton, Tx. You're not going to melt off any lacquer. Get yourself a lacquer coated wolf, Barnaul, or whatever. Tell you what. This is an extreme test and most ammo is not likely to be exposed to standing water. The rifle that, regardless of how nice and enjoyable it is to shoot is reserved for hunting season and has zero checked before the season and then is only fired into game during hunting season probably won’t be significanty affected by the heat issue. Though they were popular in certain circles, the Nyclad line was discontinued almost 10 years ago. Lacquer VS Polymer coated steel cased ammo; If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. Quick view. In other cases, it may be necessary to use zinc-coated steel cased ammo such as Silver Bear. A good source on the internet says that "all ammo produced by Wolf is now polymer coated which solves the problems of the coating melting and sticking to the chamber/bore". And bimetal is not a blend. Bought a thousand round box of Wolf to try in our DPMS ARs. Switching to modern production steel-cased ammo with polymer coatings sometimes alleviates this problem. If lacquer coated ammo is available, that is what I buy 100% of the time. Also, what are the pros and cons of polymer coated shells vs lacquer coated? I haven't run anything but brass cased ammo since then and there have been zero issues. "Gun control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound." JYogi. PCP Polymer Cased Ammo Warning / Review Update. I tried some Monarch (Tula) and it was good but a bit on the dirty side. 10 years ago. Brass seals better and IMO results in a better round. Pull the bullet and dump the powder. The Russian military changed their ammo specs from lacquer-coated steel to polymer-coated steel. Probably not worth the extra bother when you can find brass instead - but can be done. I'm going to order some 7.62x39 FMJ ammo from Ammunition to go. Yes they did, it was at least a couple years ago they switched from the lacquer coating to a new polymer coating. And I don't buy it that polymer depsoits are left in the chamber, no evidence of that in mine. 17 posted on 07/26/2020 5:46:23 PM PDT by dynachrome (The panic will end, the tyranny will not) [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies] To: ChildOfThe60s. 1 of 2 Go to page. Humid air will most likely not have any adverse reactions with this type of ammo but if the box of ammunition gets wet, it may rust…as always recommended, keep ammo dry. Innovative people in the shooting industry are always coming up with something new to explore. “The bitterness of poor quality Lingers long after The sweetness of low price is forgotten.”, "The biggest issue with assembling an AR isn't so much getting the parts together right - it's getting the right parts together.". Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 3290 W. Big Beaver Rd. No matter what I tried, this thing was stuck. I expected a difference in the old problem of it leaving “lacquer” in the chamber, (but was to learn that this was a mistaken belief.) PC Ammo is a polymer coated - no copper jacket. Poly means polymer, as in polymer coated rather than the lacquer that they had previously used. Is there any significant difference? They plate copper over the mild steel jacket material, making two layers. Doesn't matter which goes first. The gunsmith at Gander Mtn does not recommend "cheap foreign-made" ammo, but in the same breath said that polymer coating will work ok for me. Sep 21, 2009 #1 C. ConnRadd Active Member. I had a couple of stuck cases after getting them REALLY hot and allowing them to cool down with a round in the chamber. For several years, the company produced several calibers under the Nyclad brand, which featured bullets coated in nylon. great sir! That's good customer service! So there's no lead fouling in the bore and the splash-back on steel targets is minimized. The problem primarily seems to be using Wolf manufactured 5.56mm cartridges in AR series rifles. I don't like steel cases and you can't reload it. chamber. Should your Rights be predicated on anything? I think it's harder on the chamber and everything that it contacts from the mag to the ramps. Which is interesting because for all the bonus points polymer cased ammo gives you, there is one distinct drawback I’ll get to in a bit. Mike from MD Arms post on their Quad Stack Magazines, And it becomes a whole new Iron Dot Market, Military Arms YouTube Golden Tiger review, Damage Industries, maker of AK accessories, Krebs Custom AKs, more "tactical" AK gunsmithing, A Shitposter And A Prince – Edwin x Royal Homemade .50 BMG Handgun, Open Source BPNVG (Bootleg Panoramic NVG) with TFB Reader Stubbs, Picking a good after market stock for your old Russian 91 30, ND Math and How Not to be Dumb on the Interwebs. A lot of the coatings are not properly measured. But then again, I love the prices. Please refer to this article if you have questions about what ammunition you should use for self-defense. I find it interesting that the Russian government prefers polymer, although not a surprise since Wolf Military Classic is suppose to be Mil-Spec ammo. … 45 Caliber 230 Grain RN Hi-Tek coated bullets $61.00. But in this test, we saw three times as many failures to extract with the polymer coated Wolf brand ammo (15 extraction failures) than with the lacquer coated Brown Bear ammo (5 extraction failures). You were ALMOST right with your second answer. As heat begins to build, some AR-15 rifles start to have problems with lacquer-coated, steel-cased ammo. People say they rust, they jam, they corrode your firearms, they misfire – but these are not true at all. Zhukov -- 7/14/2010 3:11 PM AK47 Ammo Price Lists - check here for the best prices on mail-order ammo. I get surface rust on any polymer coated steel cases that sit loaded in my mags. I have not fed lacquer coated .223 in my AR, but I doubt it will work in it. Then again, if one looks in the right places, one can find 5.56X45mm XM193 ammo for not much more than polymer coated .223, so I am not too concerned about this (my older Ruger Mini-14 eats up the polymer coated .223 without issues). It was probably a manufacturers error from the begining, IE an out of spec. Go. the problem is that steel cazsings dont fire-form to chamber size, therefore hot combustion gasses blow-by into the chamber. They plate copper over the mild steel jacket material, making two layers. You're simply regurgitating bad information. Nice catch. Maybe it just isn't vented enough...I'd like to find a solution because ammo is so expensive these days. My Hornady hasn't been that bad yet but I don't have as much of it and it is from the first lot. According to DPMS Ammo Warning: "The problem with this ammunition is that the lacquer coating on the case. AK47 Ammo Forum RULES. That's what Master Class shooting is all about. Anyone use Wolf in their DPMS AR. Do all of these ammos have one of these coatings? He recommends a very good cleaning after using cheap ammo. I shot about 100 rounds of the polymer Wolf in my rifle and then, without letting it cool off, I loaded some South African ammo and shot it. Zhukov. Is there any significant difference? Lacquer Coated Ammo... Thread starter ConnRadd; Start date Sep 21, 2009; 1; 2; Next. ADVERTISEMENT. I've had misfires, and damaged casings, but this malfunction was impossible to remove. So polymer coated steel cases can rust or corrode when exposed to extreme moist conditions like being wet for 24 hours. At high temperatures the lacquer would sometimes melt off the case and make a real mess, especially when shooting brass case ammo afterwards. Overall. Zhukov -- 7/14/2010 3:14 PM AK47 Ammo Forum FAQs. Today’s steel casings are coated with a polymer, making them very smooth as well as corrosion and rust resistant. PC Ammo is a polymer coated - no copper jacket. When loading magazines with polymer coatings I now wear gloves to stop my sweat from starting surface rust (I have clammy hands a lot). Buy a small amount of polymer and give it a try. Lacquer is still available in many loads even though the Wolf and their suppliers (Tula and Ulyanosk) stick to polymer. Lacquer or Polymer Coating Gums up a Hot Chamber Causing Cases to Stick. The rust makes me miss when everything 7.62x39 was copper washed or lacquered. DPMS recommends no lacquer coating but says nothing about the newer polymer coating process. FWIW, you can hold a propane torch up to a lacquer case and the lacquer won't melt off; it's not melting in the chamber. Lv 4. Zhukov -- 7/14/2010 3:14 PM AK47 Ammo Forum FAQs. Yea, I hate to say it but polymer gummed up my plr-16. When considering an undertaking such as this, it’s a good idea to look at what had been done before. The bottom line is that the coated bullets shoot at least as well as the wax-lubed … DPMS recommends no lacquer coating but says nothing about the newer polymer coating process. So there's no lead fouling in the bore and the splash-back on steel targets is minimized. This is a discussion on Wartak 9mm Steel Case Ammo in a P938 within the P238, P938 Pistol forums, part of the SIG Sauer Pistols category; Originally Posted by jeffy56 The picture on the box says 'polymer' coated, whatever that means. 9mm 125 grain RN Hi-Tek Coated (grooved) $68.00. Polymer is probably lighter, cheaper, and easier to apply consistently (lacquer often has drips and runs) Steel Casing Ammo Myths Exposed. Now I’ve read some things that say you can save as much as 60%, but I think those numbers are either bogus, or maybe only in specific calibers… I don’t know. Protect your home and family, it only takes an ounce or two (or 230 GR). They have the Polymer coated Brown Bear ammo for $10 less the Lacquer coated per 500 rounds. Posted March 25, 2014 in Ammunition, Other Gear & Gadgets, Reviews by Alex C. with 114 Comments. Next Last. That's what Master Class shooting is all about. It does not "melt" as some AR-15 people have claimed, but they are just using crappy AR-15s, such as BM's, Rock Rivers, etc instead of quality ARs, or have them improperly gassed, since Russian .223 is lower pressured than 5.56 nato stuff. Zhukov. Actually you can reload steelcase if it has the boxer primer. Those coatings have much better rust resistance. The gunsmith at Gander Mtn does not recommend "cheap foreign-made" ammo, but in the same breath said that polymer coating will work ok for me. From past experience Brown, Silver and Golden Bear is much cleaner the Tula or Wolf. One of the more interesting new developments is the polymer composite bullet offered by Polycase Inceptor and Ruger ammunition.. Polymer is making its way into all aspects of the shooting sport, from polymer frames to polymer coatings on bullets. I never shot anything but brass cased ammo through my ARs. But while the surface rust is bad looking and needs to be watched, has anybody actually experienced a malfunction due to too much rust on a case in an AK? Zhukov. Brown Bear (Polymer)-$23.95 per 100 ($0.24 per round) Brown Bear (Lacquer)-$24.95 per 100 ($0.25 per round) Silver Bear-$28.95 per 100 ($0.29 per round) The polymer coating has not had this problem reported. I have to admit, DPMS didn't have to do a thing for me and they helped me out for no charge. PC Ammo is more accurate. I shoot tons of Wolf in my ARs. Lacquer coated ammunition can have a tendency to become soft after repeated shooting and the chamber is warm. Topics Author Stats Last Post AK47 Ammo Forum RULES. Our competitive shooters tell us that a group that was the size of a quarter is now the size of a dime. That, I can confirm to you. My DPMS M4 needed to be sent back for a 'warranty repair' despite it was me that decided to run cheap lacquer coated ammo through it. Wolf Ammo is a widely known and long-time respected brand of ammo that is manufactured in plants all over the world. Wartak 9mm Steel Case Ammo in a P938. The lacquer covered stuff had issues in some firearms according to many shooters. 55gr FMJ – Steel-Cased with Polymer Coating – Bi-Metal Jacket (steel and copper) ... Lacquer coated ammo always jams my Mosins. Allowing debris to be lodged between the coated casing and the chamber. Most steel cased ammunition is either lacquer coated or polymer coated. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! It has to work. Hunting-specific rifles, for example. I function tested each rifle with 40 rounds of Winchester … I plan to pick up a 100 rounds or so to try it out and if the SKS likes it I'd buy 500 or 1000 rounds. Much of the public domain information about the test was lacking – were all rifles of new manufacture? It only cost a little more and wont leave lacquer in your chamber because its nickel plated steel. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. As the barrel heats up, the lacquer turns to a soft, varnish substance and upon … You can pop the primer if you want too. The "laquer" coating is the best, followed by the polymer and metal coatings. The steel is harder then brass and is certainly harder then aluminum if you have an aluminum framed gun. So some caotings are … And bimetal is not a blend. So, we went to the range. Zhukov. thanks for sharing this information.polymer coated ammo. I might use a slightly oily rag as well but I generally like to avoid chemicals with my ammo because you don't know what might penetrate a primer or case neck and make the round a dud. Not one of us, and not even one time. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. Nothing with a steel case touches any of my guns....period. The test more or less showed that a month of leaving lacquer coated steel ammo outside will yield you nothing but some light jacket corrosion, shootable ammo, and an oil stained porch. In years past, the Military Classic was just the old style Wolf ammo. According to DPMS Ammo Warning: "The problem with this ammunition is that the lacquer coating on the case. 9mm 147 grain FP Hi-Tek coated (Grooved) $39.50 - $56.25. Wolf Military Classic rusts the worst but it is also my largest amount of ammo that sits in my mags so it may be an unfair sample. Zhukov. I plan to pick up a 100 rounds or so to try it out and if the SKS likes it I'd buy 500 or 1000 rounds. There was a great article copied onto one of the forums that dealt with reloading Wolf steel cases. Golden Tiger and Brown bear are two exceptions. Lacquer VS Polymer coated steel cased ammo; If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. Brown Bear still uses this coating. First off, is weight. DPMS recommends no lacquer coating but says nothing about the newer polymer coating process. 3. I highly recommend checking out their full results, especially if you appreciate a science-based approach to … To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. I don't know about others but no issues in my two ARs (chrome lined chambers) mixing up brass and steelcase. I hesitate to buy anymore because weapon malfunction is a no-go. 0 0. Steel coatings come in two flavors, polymer, which is more modern and generally more expensive, and the cheaper lacquer. Lucky Gunner has some of the best gun content on the web. Personally, i like silver bear better than the lacquer or polymer coated steel cases. Results 1 to 9 of 9 Thread: Lacquer VS Polymer coated steel … JavaScript is disabled. A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. The most interesting thing I found about this was how the chemicals in the Rem Oil seemed to mess with the jacket more rather than protect it when compared with the control. But a more accurate figure I bel Polymer cased ammo is even more logical for “low volume” shooting. However, with the extractor/ejector and bolt of the XCR, I've been using Wolf polymer coated ammo. Suite 500, Troy, Michigan 48084 USA. A good source on the internet says that "all ammo produced by Wolf is now polymer coated which solves the problems of the coating melting and sticking to the chamber/bore". I have friends who shoot it through rifles with no issue, but the plr melts it after long term use. They have the Polymer coated Brown Bear ammo for $10 less the Lacquer coated per 500 rounds. There have been a variety of tests conducted using the AR-15/M4/M16 platform over the last 55 years, and we studied as many as possible in order to determine the best course to take.One of the more notable tests – certainly one of the most discussed – was the Army’s “M4 dust test” of 2007. Our competitive shooters tell us that a group that was the size of a quarter is now the size of a dime. Although we fired the polymer coated Tula ammunition in different rifles, the rate of extraction failures in those rifles was lower than that of Wolf. They had very good luck with it. However, lately I and others have noticed with concern that there is Brown Bear that is coming as polymer. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I have not fed lacquer coated .223 in my AR, but I doubt it will work in it. + Reply to Thread. The wax-lubed and polymer coated groups are nearly the same size, but the coated bullet groups are smaller.